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The Conversation with Dasha Burns

The strategist who didn't believe in the red wave

The Conversation with Dasha Burns

POLITICO

News, Government, Politics

4.01.6K Ratings

🗓️ 13 January 2023

⏱️ 62 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In off-the-record conversations and private emails, AFL-CIO political director Michael Podhorzer argued that the pundits focusing exclusively on the fundamentals of the race — Biden’s approval rating and the dismal economic indicators — were missing the bigger picture. Yes, presidents usually lose an average of some two dozen House seats in similar circumstances, but that wasn’t the whole story. While many analysts argued that inflation would be more important than the diffuse issue of democracy, Podhorzer said that was myopic. He was much more right than wrong. Podhorzer has now left the AFL-CIO after 25 years and is able to speak freely. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza sits down with him in his kitchen for his first wide-ranging interview. They talk about what everyone got wrong about 2022, his critiques of the media’s coverage of the right, his ongoing battles with the so-called popularists in the Democratic Party, and why Podhorzer already thinks the presidential election of 2024 is headed for a dangerous endgame. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Early last year, when I was writing about the 2022 midterms, I pretty much had the same

0:09.8

conventional view that everyone else did.

0:13.1

It was the first midterm for a new president whose popularity was low and it was overseeing

0:18.5

an economy into stress.

0:21.1

We'd seen this movie many times before and it almost always ended the same way.

0:27.6

The party occupying the White House would lose in a wave election.

0:33.6

It was as close to physics as you get in American politics.

0:37.1

In fact, some pundits and political scientists even had names for the school of thought.

0:42.9

We were structuralists or fundamentalists because that's what mattered, a structure or

0:48.1

fundamentals of the race.

0:52.0

If you tell them the president's approval rating and the state of the economy, the fundamentalists

0:56.5

could tell you roughly how many seats the president's party would lose.

1:02.2

And those fundamentals in 2022 said Biden would lose about 20 to 30 seats in the house.

1:10.3

But there was one political analyst who I read and talked to who regularly challenged

1:17.3

that idea.

1:19.6

And to the extent that I avoided the red wave prediction trap, it was because of this

1:24.5

person.

1:26.4

His name almost never appeared in the press.

1:29.6

His writings, which turned out to be prescient, were off the record for a private audience

1:35.0

that included some of the most influential people in Washington.

1:40.9

His name is Michael Podhorser and he just stepped down after a decade as the AFL-CIO's

1:48.8

political director, a job that has historically been an enormously influential position in

...

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