Hi and welcome back to Undisclosed.

I'm attorney, author, and advocate, Robya Chaudhry, and I'm here with my colleague, Colin Miller.

Hi, this is Colin Miller.

I'm a professor of law at the University of South Carolina School of Law, and I blog at

Evidence Prof blog.

Thank you. and I blog at Evidence Prof blog. Did that music just trigger something in you?

Does it sound familiar?

If you're a true crime connoisseur, you must surely recognize it as the theme to the Netflix series, Mind Hunter.

And if you haven't seen it, I have to question your life choices. Nonetheless,

the central protagonist in the series are the figures of FBI agents Bill Tentch and Holden Ford,

both of whom are characters based on real-life FBI agents Robert Ressler and John Douglas.

If those names sound familiar to you, it's because you may have some knowledge about the infamous

FBI behavioral science unit. That's the department the agency established those names sound familiar to you, it's because you may have some knowledge about the infamous FBI

behavioral science unit. That's the department of the agency established back in 1972 that

eventually developed the methodology behind profiling serial killers, which is what the TV show is

all about. While it's a great series and these characters are compelling, there was a third character

that likely also caught your attention.

I'm glad this worked out.

You know, when you sent me your notes from the Kemper meetings, I was in a real rut with my new book.

What's your book about?

It's about white-collar criminals, men not so different to your Edmund Kemper.

How do you think the men you study are similar to Edmund Kemper?

...