The Secret to Beating Burnout | Steven Kotler

The Art of Charm

http://www.TheArtOfCharm.com

Business, Health & Fitness, Education

4.7 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 13 October 2025

⏱️ 72 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What if peak performance isn’t about superhumans — but about biology? In this powerful conversation, AJ and Johnny sit down with New York Times bestselling author and flow researcher Steven Kotler to reveal why we’re all hardwired for the extraordinary. From 1990s action sports to neuroscience labs, Steven breaks down the science of flow, how communities amplify creativity, and how you can unlock heightened focus, creativity, and resilience — no matter your background. Discover how flow states work in the brain, why nature is a “multi-tool solution” against burnout, how frustration signals progress (not failure), and the simple daily practices that make extraordinary performance repeatable. This episode will show you why elite performers across industries aren’t chasing hacks — they’re mastering biology. What to Listen For [00:00:00] Why flow states prevent burnout and boost resilience [00:01:10] The 1990s action sports revolution and redefining “impossible” [00:04:00] How creativity became the key flow trigger that changed everything [00:07:00] Punk rock, DIY culture, and the psychology of innovation [00:10:30] Flow and community: how group flow amplifies performance [00:15:00] Micro flow vs. macro flow — and why both matter [00:18:30] The myth of “10% brain” and what actually happens in flow [00:22:00] Nature as a peak performance “multi-tool” [00:26:30] Flow triggers for everyday conversations and relationships [00:33:00] Group flow, improvisation, and the power of “yes, and” [00:35:30] The 6 positive psychology basics that build burnout immunity [00:43:00] Why gratitude isn’t fluffy — it rewires your brain for optimism [00:50:00] Resetting your nervous system through flow [00:53:00] Small “i” impossibles: how extraordinary starts [00:57:00] Why frustration is proof you’re on the right track [01:03:00] The real path to mastering passion and purpose A Word From Our Sponsors Stop being over looked and unlock your X-Factor today at ⁠⁠⁠⁠unlockyourxfactor.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ The very qualities that make you exceptional in your field are working against you socially. Visit the ⁠⁠⁠⁠artofcharm.com/intel ⁠⁠⁠⁠for a social intelligence assessment and discover exactly what's holding you back. Indulge in affordable luxury with Quince. Upgrade your wardrobe today at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠quince.com/charm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping and hassle-free returns. Grow your way - with Headway! Get started at ⁠⁠⁠⁠makeheadway.com/CHARM ⁠⁠⁠⁠and use my code CHARM for 25% off. Ready to turn your business idea into reality? Sign up for your $1/month trial at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠shopify.com/charm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Need to hire top talent—fast? Claim your $75 Sponsored Job Credit now at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Indeed.com/charm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. This year, skip breaking a sweat AND breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mintmobile.com/charm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Save more than fifty percent on term life insurance at ⁠⁠⁠⁠SELECTQUOTE.COM/CHARM⁠⁠⁠⁠ TODAY to get started Curious about your influence level? Get your Influence Index Score today! Take this 60-second quiz to find out how your influence stacks up against top performers at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠theartofcharm.com/influence⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Episode resources: ⁠Steven Kotler: Author and Speaker The Art of Impossible: A Peak Performance Primer Check in with AJ and Johnny! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AJ on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Johnny on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠AJ on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Johnny on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Art of Charm on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Art of Charm on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Art of Charm on TikTok Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	You know, some people think OCD is just about keeping your house super clean.
0:03.6	That stereotype drives me crazy. Real OCD creates these unwanted intrusive thoughts about
0:09.6	stuff you actually care about, like your social life. Exactly. It makes you doubt whether
0:14.2	people actually like you or you're terrified. You accidentally offended someone. You spend
0:18.6	hours replaying conversations looking for proof you're not a
0:22.0	terrible person. And those thoughts get so overwhelming. You start doing all these behaviors to make
0:26.7	them stop, like mentally reviewing every interaction or trying to cancel negative thoughts with
0:31.4	positive ones before you see friends. But here's the thing. The doubts and fears just come back
0:36.7	even stronger. It isolates you from the
0:38.9	connections that make life worth living. That's where NOCD comes in. They're the world's leading
0:43.9	provider of OCD treatment and all of their therapists specialize in ERP therapy. That's exposure
0:49.7	and response prevention. Not regular talk therapy, which actually makes OCD worse. NOCD does live face-to-face
0:57.6	virtual sessions, where they teach you proven techniques to manage intrusive thoughts and reclaim your
1:02.8	confidence. It's 100% virtual, covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans, and you get support
1:09.5	between sessions so you're not facing this alone.
1:12.8	If you think OCD might be holding you back, go to NOCD.com and book a free 15-minute call.
1:19.7	That's N-O-C-D.com.
1:22.2	If you are paying attention to the positive psychology basics, you get regular once-a-week access to a flow, even if it's just 20 minutes, a half an hour,
1:32.1	an hour, and you have an active recovery protocol.
1:34.9	As far as we can tell, you can't burn out.
1:47.2	Welcome to the show, Stephen.
1:48.8	Thanks for having me, guys.
	...

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