The Scouts are too woke, according to Pete Hegseth

Code Switch

NPR

Society & Culture

4.6 • 14.9K Ratings

🗓️ 18 March 2026

⏱️ 35 minutes

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Summary

Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth recently put Scouting America — formerly known as the Boy Scouts — "on notice." The once great organization was becoming too woke, he said, and had been tarnished by embracing DEI. On this episode, we're talking to Benjamin René Jordan, author of Modern Manhood and the Boy Scouts of America, about the Scouts' surprisingly progressive history. And we ask him about the complex relationship between scouting and the military.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	What's good, y'all?
0:01.2	You are listening to Code Switch, the show about race and identity from NPR. I'm Gene Demby. And I'm B.A. Parker. Parker. A little birdie told me that used to be a brownie growing up in Baltimore. Is that true? To be fair, it was only for like two weeks, which is very anti-clamatic. That counts?
0:21.8	Well, I don't know.
0:37.5	But I maintain my access to the doci doze and thinness. You got the doci-do plug. They got the, okay. Wait, so why were you only in the, you only did for two weeks? What happened? I feel like I was too young and probably because most of it was sitting around telling ghost stories. I feel like also that would be kind of your bag though I feel like you would love that
0:38.5	Well grown Parker was
0:40.3	It's scary for me telling ghost stories. I feel like also that would be kind of your bag, though.
0:37.6	I feel like you would love that.
0:39.1	Well, grown Parker would. They were too scary for me? But were you a Boy Scout? I was in the Cub Scouts, you know, for the little ones. Pack 433. Shout out to Miss Ann and Miss Anita, Miss Doris at St. Charles in South Philly. Yeah, so every Saturday morning
0:54.1	We would go, you know, do arts and crafts, little projects
0:56.3	You know, learn some and crafts, little projects, you know,
0:56.9	learn some fun skill that I never used again. But I remember we used to go camping every summer, this, like, campground outside of Philly somewhere. It was fun. We'd, like, row some boats and, you know what I mean? It was fun. It's funny because I just, I haven't thought about scouting for years, at least, you know, until this month.
1:13.3	Why? What happened?
1:14.6	Well, yeah. I mean, it was fun. It's funny because I just, I haven't thought about scouting for years, at least, you know, until this month.
1:13.2	Why, what happened?
1:14.5	Well, you know, your boy, Pete Haxeth.
1:17.0	My boy.
1:18.2	Yeah, your boy, Pete Haxeth, the Secretary of Defense really got to be in his bonnet about the Boy Scouts.
1:24.5	Well, now known in Scouting America.
1:26.4	Boy Scout training focused on
1:27.6	responsible citizenship, character and leadership development, patriotism, personal fitness,
1:33.4	self-reliance, faith, and a wide range of outdoor skills.
1:37.9	Okay, Gene, so what's the problem? Okay, Parker, wait for it, wait for it.
	...

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