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The Richard Nicholls Mental Health Podcast

The Roles We Play

The Richard Nicholls Mental Health Podcast

Richard Nicholls

Counseling, Happiness, Anxiety, Health & Fitness, Counselling, Depression, Psychology, Mental Health, Psychotherapy, Alternative Health, Self Help, Wellbeing

4.7685 Ratings

🗓️ 24 October 2025

⏱️ 6 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Send us a text Why do families, schools and workplaces so often create “roles” like the star, the scapegoat, the peacekeeper or the joker? In this episode we dive into systems theory, exploring how groups unconsciously assign parts to people in order to keep balance, and the cost this can have on our self-esteem and identity. Support the show Join our Evolve to Thrive 6 month programme https://therapynatters.com Join the Patreon community https://www.patreon.com/richardnicholls Social Med...

Transcript

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0:00.0

It's bonus episode day, and I'm talking about systems theory today. Have you ever noticed

0:07.0

that in every group of people, there always seems to be a few set characters. There's usually

0:13.8

a star, the one who seems to shine at everything they do, and they get heaps of praise. There's

0:20.1

often a scapegoat as well, the one who

0:22.9

somehow gets blamed for everything that goes wrong. Then you'll often find a peacekeeper,

0:28.6

the one who smooths things over to keep everyone calm. And quite often, there's the Joker,

0:35.1

the one who keeps everybody laughing. maybe to lighten the atmosphere,

0:39.1

maybe to distract from something more uncomfortable. Now, these roles, they don't come from

0:46.8

nowhere. They're part of what psychologists call systems theory. And the idea is that families, schools, workplaces, even friendship groups,

1:00.7

they all work like little systems, a bit like an orchestra. Because when one instrument

1:08.3

goes out of tune, everybody else has to adjust to keep the music sounding correct together.

1:16.6

Systems are always trying to find balance, even if it's not a healthy balance and everything's out of tune.

1:21.4

And so people often end up being nudged into roles.

1:26.3

The star makes the parents feel successful. The scapegoat carries the

1:31.2

tension. The Joker makes sure that nobody's got to sit in silence with any of their feelings.

1:37.1

And nobody volunteers for these parts. But once they're handed out, they can stick. I know this from my own school days. I've likely

1:47.2

got a couple of old school friends who might listen to this podcast. Hello to you. And I was

1:52.0

given the label of the Joker in the system because, for some reason, nature or nurture,

1:58.1

don't know, the label fit my behaviour. and so my behaviour had to fit my label.

2:04.2

But sometimes the role you play says more about the system than it does about you.

2:10.8

The class needed a joker, and I happened to fit the bill.

2:14.0

And maybe you've experienced something similar.

...

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