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of the tech world and beyond.

Our guest today is Shelley Banjo.

She's Bloomberg's New York Bureau Chief and host of the latest

season of Foundering, a narrative podcast that tells the inside story of TikTok's rise.

Shelley, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. It's great having you. I thoroughly enjoyed

listening to your season of Foundering across six episodes. We'll do one here today. And then hopefully everybody after our

conversation gets a taste of what's coming and goes and listens to your season. It is really good.

I think the best place for us to start is to ask this question, what is TikTok? Because it's not

like a social network. Like you aren't adding friends. Maybe you're following people like a Twitter,

but it's also very algorithm-heavy. So how should we think about TikTok? What sort of, you know,

box do we want to put it in when we think about social networking, social media, media? What is it?

Yeah. So for people who've never used TikTok, it's an app where you open it up, you swipe, and

videos start automatically playing in bite-sized pieces. The way I think about it is way less like a

social network like Facebook and Twitter and way more like an entertainment portal like YouTube,

where you really use it to waste time, to be entertained, to get music and, you know, fun.

And can you give us a sense? And also, I guess, one interesting thing about it before we go to the next question is that it is starting to appear on Facebook in the form of reels.

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