Bret McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness podcast.

In a period of only about 100 years, Athens went from relative obscurity to becoming an

influential empire to collapsing into ruin.

My guest table guide us through the dramatic arc of the city state and the larger than

life characters that contributed to it.

His name is David Stutter, he's a classist and the author of Phoenix, a father, a son

of the rise of Athens, and Nemesis, al-Sobieties and the fall of Athens.

We begin our conversation with the rise of Athens, and why its aristocratic families decided

to institute a radically democratic form of government.

David then walks us through how the Persian invasion catapulted Athens to power in Greece.

Along the way, David explains how a father and son named Militides and Kiemann led Athens

to power.

We then shift our attention to the fall of Athens, and how it was precipitated by the

Peloponnesian war with their one-time ally Sparta.

David introduces us to the maid for Hollywood character that would play a pivotal role in Athens

fall, the handsome and charismatic aristocrat and serial traitor, al-Sobieties.

We enter conversation with the lessons we in moderns can take from the rise in fall of

Athens.

After the show is over, check out our show notes at a-wim.ias-athons.

Alright, David Stutter, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much, I love you to be here.

So you've written a pair of books about the period that covers about 500 BC to a little

...