The rise of populist groups on the right and far right has profoundly changed European and American politics,

and it could change British politics just as significantly at the next general election.

So what does the experience of the United States and other countries tell us about populist leaders turning hard right and authoritarian and how they're being countered?

I'm Gavin Esler, and this is not a drill.

Thank you. Donald Trump swept into the White House for the second time last year as a populist demanding change from politics as usual. In Argentina, Javier Millet swept a power promising, like Trump

and Elon Musk, to take a chainsaw to his country's bureaucracy, from the Netherlands and Belgium to Spain, France,

Italy, the United Kingdom, and Germany, we have seen in the 2020s that significant upswing of

support for right and far-right political groupings. Is this merely resentment about migration and

economic grievances? And what happens if they get into power?

For our insights into what has boosted the populist right, I'm joined by Dr. Catherine Fieski,

senior fellow at the Robert Schumann Center of the European University in Florence.

Catherine, good to talk to you.

Lovely to be here. Thank you.

Can we start with the beginning, I suppose?

Is there a kind of populist playbook of negativity, constant complaints, exploitation of grievances,

usually about immigration, rather than necessarily a positive vision, just that things are

going to be better if you trust us?

Yes, I think that that's right.

And obviously, the playbook

varies from one country to another, different political cultures, different political

moments. But I think what's really important in terms of the absence of a positive vision,

which you've just hinted at, is the fact that populism is very much about calling into question the legitimacy of any elite

...