Welcome to The Spectator podcast. I'm Isabar Hardman. On this week's episode, we'll be taking the Pope to task over his leadership of the Catholic Church, asking whether Canada has got the right answers on drugs policy and lamenting the death of spontaneity. First, Pope Francis has come under increased scrutiny in recent weeks

after his controversial intervention with the Ancient Order of Malta and a decree which has been

interpreted by some as the liberalising of the church's views on remarriage after divorce.

After the resignation of Pope Benedict in 2013, a new precedent has been set, and Damian Thompson argues in this week's magazine that the knives are out amongst cardinals who hope to see France is going the same way.

He joins me now, along with Dan Hitchens, the deputy editor of the Catholic Herald.

So Damian, every so often on this podcast and in the magazine, we have more rumblings of a plot against the Pope.

Can you tell us what the latest push against Pope Francis is?

The reports in the Italian newspapers and some British newspapers that a group of cardinals who voted for him, who aren't traditionalists in other words, have basically had enough.

They want to get rid of him. Now, no names are attached to this plot, so we have to treat it with caution. But what I can

confirm from talking to a senior churchman is that there's a sort of weariness setting in. Pope Francis

has started a huge row about communion for divorced people, which he basically cannot end and he can't resolve.

And it's wearing down bishops all over the world.

Is that because they disagree with him?

Some of them disagree with him, some of them agree with him.

And his stance, just remind us of his stance.

His stance, I think, could best be described as you might think that, but I couldn't possibly

comment, as in the Pope clearly does want it to be possible for divorce and remarried people

to receive communion.

He's delighted when maverick bishops or very liberal bishops say, yes, fine, go ahead and makes

it clear that he's delighted.

But actually, there's no statement from Rome. So this leaves bishops, cardinals, archbishopishers, ordinary priests, and the couples themselves

tremendously confused, and it's wearying because there's no end in sight. Dan, how much of this

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