For over 30 years, Point of Grace has shared music, faith, and friendship with listeners across the country.

Now Denise, Lee, and Shelley are inviting you into their circle. Welcome to Circle of Friends.

The podcast is Point of Grace. Each week they're talking real life, current events, stories of true friendship, wisdom from God's Word, and all their favorite things.

If you're looking for a little company, a few laughs, and a lot of Jesus to hold it together, circle of friends.

The podcast is waiting for you.

Subscribe now wherever you listen or watch podcasts and circle up with point of grace.

Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College, all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.

I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there.

And, of course, I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at Hugh for Hillsdale.com or just Google Apple, iTunes, and Hillsdale.

Welcome back, America.

I'm Hughitt on this Tuesday.

Join by Michael Duncan, one of the Fab Four fellas on The Ruthless Podcast.

Hello, Michael. Thank you for joining me. Welcome back. How you doing?

I'm doing fantastic, Hugh. Thanks for having me.

I am a little bit amazed. You guys are so cynical.

I listen this morning, and you're not buying Gavin Newsom's Hoop Dreams backstory.

I was totally sold on that.

You're going to have to tell you.

I didn't hear the whole podcast, but the part I heard that you replayed, I really believed it.

Well, it's sort of tough.

And, you know, our whole background of our careers is working on political campaigns.

So we're a little bit cynical about these things, right?

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