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Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoic, something that can help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, wisdom and temperance.

And here on the weekend we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers, we reflect, we prepare, we think deeply about the challenging issues of our time.

And we work through this philosophy in a way that's more possible here when we're not rushing to worker to get the kids to school, when we have the time to sing, to go for a walk, to sit with our journals and to prepare for what the future will bring.

Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. My guest today is someone who, if you're not familiar with his music and you're familiar with my writing, in a way you are familiar with his music because I have probably written more of my books to Matt Berninger and the National.

Then very, very, very few artists. I love the national. It's when I write, I tend to listen to songs on repeat over and over again. And this is a band that I'll listen to their whole album, but often I'll pick one or two songs. And I'll just listen to that song on repeat to blurs together. It gets me into an emotional place that allows me to access whatever I have to do with my writing.

I think the first national song I would have heard would have been Mr. November, so this would have been like, oh, eight. And it's been amazing to watch this band, which wasn't a new band then continue to grow and rise. I think there are a great example of the kind of artist I'm talking about in my book, perennial seller.

There's stuff amazing, the new album I am easy to find is one of my favorites, but Matt's solo stuff is really great. He did a song called Walking on a Strain with Phoebe Bridgers, which I love. Just an incredible band. I was so excited to have them on the podcast. Thanks to Pete Holmes, a mutual friend who connected us. Pete's interview with Matt is also very good. And as you'll see in the interview, I sort of explain just how big a role the national has played in my families.

Anyways, great interview. I think I really like this one. We talk about art, we talk about creativity, we talk about ego, talk about how to manage this crazy period that we're all in and the opportunities in it and how ultimately one of the benefits the artist has is we turn the events, the things that happen to us into fuel into into what we do.

And hopefully that can be a lesson to you, whatever industry you happen to be in. So here's my interview with Matt Burninger of the national and we talk stosism and a lot more.

It's a big day for you guys. I'm glad we got to do this on today of all days.

Oh, because it's Tom's anniversary. You talk about Taylor Swift. I am. I am. Yeah, that was, yeah, that was, that was a really fun song to work on and yeah,

yeah, Aaron's, Aaron's Aaron's been working on stuff for a while and we've kind of known her for a long time and so it doesn't seem like for us. It hasn't really all the stuff that's going on with her hasn't seemed that much of a big like surprise.

But yeah, it is funny how people are reacting to it. So in so many big ways. Yeah, it's weird how small like I think for people who are not in, you know, a creative industry, you can, can, can feel like this sort of big, impenetrable thing.

But it's actually a small world and the people who are sometimes the biggest people in the world at that thing. They're part of the reason they are so big is that they actually just really love music and or or books or art.

And so it can be a smaller world than you think and that's where some of these collaborations come from. I feel like.

Yeah, I mean, you also do you just I mean along the way, you put it pretty quickly realize that that everybody is in this.

The artist, I mean, at least, you know, you meet a lot of people throughout the industry that it's ulterior motives or different kind of motivations, but almost all the artists are just are almost down to the last one just kind of a little bit.

And nerdy missfits who who are the artsy kids and got into music and every all the all the rest of the stuff that comes with this kind of collected around them, but they're they're just usually the same, you know, person with all basic insecurities and everyone does so so most artists I meet are charming.

You know, just disarming and affable and just just, you know, whatever chill and and tellers definitely fits that vibe and and so there is a there is I think maybe from the outside with all the packaging and the glamour and stuff sometimes people seem

sort of bigger or even like tougher, you know, and so like it and that's why it just feel like they're free, they're free ring to attack and anything, you know, celebrities in some ways I'm not defending, you know, poor celebrities for being.

But somebody like Kayla Swift is just who's just a an artist just she's been trying to make art the best art she can make from the beginning and she's had incredible success on the back of that art, the rest of it's all i'm sure she would she would love for all the rest of it just to just go away, you know,

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