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🗓️ 8 November 2025
⏱️ 48 minutes
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Recently, Bill Gates very publicly pivoted on climate change, rejecting “doomsday” predictions and calling for a more pragmatic, human-centered approach.
Is that a sign that the era of climate alarmism is coming to a close?
That’s what I wanted to find out when I sat down with Michael Shellenberger, author of “Apocalypse Never” and founder of Public.news and the nonprofit Environmental Progress.
From rising sea levels to surging forest fires to dying polar bears to disappearing coral reefs, much of what we’ve been told about climate change is not true, he says.
The rising sea level narrative, for example, rests entirely on computer models that were manipulated to produce the desired outcome, Shellenberger says.
“It’s clear that the activist scientists were manipulating models to show an acceleration in sea level rise when the only long-term, reliable source of data, which is called tide gauge data ... shows no acceleration from the 1850s on,” he says.
How is data cherry-picked or skewed to create misleading narratives when it comes to climate change? What’s behind the sudden embrace of nuclear energy—after it had been demonized for decades? How might it be related to the global AI race?
Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.
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| 0:00.0 | If you read the papers about the models, the modelers say, depending on the assumptions, |
| 0:06.0 | we can show sea level deceleration or linearity or accelerations. |
| 0:11.0 | From rising sea levels to surging forest fires, to dying polar bears, to disappearing coral reefs, |
| 0:17.0 | much of what we've been told about climate change is just not true, says Michael |
| 0:22.0 | Schellenberger, the author of Apocalypse Never, and founder of public. |
| 0:25.7 | .. I think that those scientists that manipulate the data to show certain things, |
| 0:31.8 | I think they really are apocalyptic. Like, they really think that the world is going to come |
| 0:35.6 | to an end. But then they look at their data and their data don't show that. |
| 0:39.3 | So then they have to mess with it. |
| 0:41.3 | At the same time, Bill Gates has recently come out to declare the quote, |
| 0:45.3 | doomsday view of climate change is wrong. |
| 0:48.3 | Are we seeing a shift away from climate alarmism and the net zero agenda? |
| 0:53.3 | This is American Thought Leaders and I'm Yanya Kelleck. |
| 0:58.5 | Michael Schellenberger, so good to have you back |
| 1:00.6 | on American Thought Leaders. |
| 1:02.0 | Yon, great to be back with you. |
| 1:04.7 | So Michael, is the era of climate extremists |
| 1:08.5 | destroying priceless works of art now over? |
| 1:11.6 | That's a really interesting question. |
| 1:14.6 | It feels like it's coming to an end. |
| 1:16.6 | I mean, we still see, as you mentioned, |
| 1:18.6 | you know, vandalism, most recently against Stonehenge. |
... |
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