From New York Times, I'm Michael Bobarrow.

This is the Daily.

During an Oval Office meeting with Congressional Republicans a few days ago,

it didn't take President Trump long to turn to his favorite subject,

his hatred for the chairman of the

Federal Reserve, Jay Powell. In fact, during the meeting, Trump proudly showed off the

draft of a letter that would fire Powell for good. It's the latest chapter in a dysfunctional

relationship that has major implications not just for the American economy, but for the global economy. Today, I speak with my colleague, Colby Smith, about what's really at the heart of Washington's ugliest drama, Trump versus Powell.

It's Thursday, July 17th.

Colby, nice to have you.

Thanks for having me.

So this is an episode about some pretty heavy-duty topics, monetary policy, interest rates,

tariffs, but really at its core, it's an episode about a toxic personal relationship between

the President of the United States and the country's most powerful

economic official. So tell us that story of how this relationship has become so toxic.

So it's a complicated relationship to say the absolute least. As you mentioned, these are

two of the most powerful policymakers in the entire world, and their decisions have massive economic ramifications for the global

economy, the global financial system. And at the heart of the matter, you have President Trump,

who has been able to unveil all the different aspects of his economic agenda that he's campaigned on.

He's been successful in pushing tariffs through. He's been successful in pushing these tax cuts through. He's been successful in pushing tariffs through. He's

been successful in pushing these tax cuts through. He's been successful in cracking down on immigration.

That's why we say this is Trump's economy. Absolutely. He's made it his own. He owns it through and

...