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The Ezra Klein Show

The Most Thorough Case Against Crypto I've Heard

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 5 April 2022

⏱️ 82 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The hype around cryptocurrencies has reached a fever pitch. There are Super Bowl ads for crypto companies featuring celebrities like Matt Damon and Larry David. The Staples Center in Los Angeles is now the Crypto.com Arena. And behind that hype is a distinct vision: a more decentralized economy where individuals have more autonomy over their finances, a grass-roots internet free of the not-so-invisible hand of Big Tech, and a cultural ecosystem where artists and musicians can fairly monetize their work. But what if that vision is deeply flawed? What if the technology undergirding cryptocurrencies isn’t what it’s cracked up to be? Or what if the technology does work, yet the world it creates isn’t a decentralized utopia but a hyper-financialized dystopia? Dan Olson is the creator of a two-hour-YouTube video, “Line Goes Up,” that has now been viewed nearly seven million times. “Line Goes Up” is the single most comprehensive critique of crypto that I’ve ever heard. And that’s because Olson isn’t just focused on cryptocurrencies as a technology or an asset class, but on the crypto universe as a distinct culture underpinned by a powerful ideology. It’s easy to think about the lingo, the acronyms and the myths associated with the crypto world as incidental to the value of cryptocurrencies and NFTs as assets. But for Olson, the culture and the currency are inextricably linked. And once you’ve made that connection, suddenly a lot of the problems, warning signs and potential dangers of crypto become visible in a new way. Mentioned: “A Crypto Optimist Meets a Crypto Skeptic” from “The Ezra Klein Show” “How NFTs Create Value” by Steve Kaczynski and Scott Duke Kominers You Are Not a Gadget by Jaron Lanier “Web3 Is Going Just Great” by Molly White The Gift by Lewis Hyde Book recommendations: The Power Broker by Robert A. Caro The Tombs of Atuan by Ursula K. Le Guin Persuasive Games by Ian Bogost Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld and Isaac Jones; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Mr. Clon and this is the Asura Clon Show.

0:20.0

So back in the fall, I wanted to do a cluster of episodes on crypto and I didn't quite

0:27.2

get there.

0:28.2

Before I went up to Tony Leve, I got the first one that I wanted to do done, which was

0:32.3

with crypto investor Katie Hahn and was built around the question, what if the crypto

0:37.1

boosters are right?

0:38.7

What is it that they're trying to build?

0:40.4

What kinds of problems could their technologies and their ideas solve and what kinds of problems

0:46.0

could be created by their success?

0:49.6

It took a while, but this is a show I did had to do parallel on side it.

0:53.1

This is a conversation asking the inverse question.

0:56.8

What if they're wrong?

0:57.9

What if their technology doesn't build anything like the world?

1:00.4

They think they're building.

1:02.0

What kinds of problems could be created by crypto's failure and who could be hurt by it?

1:07.8

And I'll be honest, I'm probably in a different place on this myself from the intervening months.

1:13.6

I've become a lot more worried about crypto.

1:16.4

The advertisements I'm watching when you have Matt Damon doing ads suggesting you're

1:21.1

coward.

1:22.1

If you don't buy crypto, you've got Larry David doing a super bowl ad, a super bowl

1:26.1

ad where the explicit message, the whole point of the ad is invest in crypto, even though

1:32.2

you don't understand it.

...

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