The Most Corrupt Presidency in American History

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 7 May 2025

⏱️ ? minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum reflects on the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, examining how postwar reconciliation—not battlefield triumph—became America’s true finest hour. He contrasts that legacy with Donald Trump’s recent bombastic Victory Day statement, urging a rededication to the values that built a more peaceful world. David is then joined by The Atlantic’s Anne Applebaum to discuss the astonishing and brazen corruption of the Trump presidency, how authoritarian regimes seek to break institutions, and the hardship of losing friendships to politics. Finally, David answers listener questions on fostering open-minded political dialogue among polarized high-school students, why America hasn’t developed a strong worker-based political movement like its European counterparts, and how to think about class in modern U.S. politics. He also weighs in on the risk of data suppression under the Trump administration and reflects on whether his long-held conservative values still belong to the political right. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/podsub. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	11 Labs powers AI voices that don't sound like AI voices, like this one.
0:05.1	Eleven Labs voice agents are used to handle everything from customer support queries to appointment scheduling.
0:10.8	Get started for free at 11 Labs.io slash Atlantic.
0:15.0	Music Hello, and welcome to episode five of the David Frum show.
0:30.5	I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.
0:33.2	This week, I'll be joined by my Atlantic colleague and dear friend, Anne Applebaum,
0:37.8	one of the world's leading authorities on democracy and authoritarianism,
0:41.4	kleptocracy, and the rule of law.
0:43.3	I am so looking forward to the conversation with Anne, but first, some thoughts.
0:51.0	This podcast will post in the week that the world commemorates the 80th anniversary of the end of the Second World War in Europe.
0:59.5	The Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler committed suicide on April 30th, 1945.
1:04.8	After his death, the German armies in Europe, one by one, began to approach the Allied commanders to surrender.
1:10.3	In Italy, in northwestern Europe.
1:12.6	Finally, on May 7th, the overall command structure of the German armies approached the Supreme Allied commander, Dwight Eisenhower,
1:18.6	to discuss an instrument of surrender for all the remaining German forces.
1:22.6	The original instrument of surrender was rejected by the Soviet army.
1:26.6	It didn't mention the Soviet
1:28.2	even explicitly, and they had some other objections to it. And so the final instrument was negotiated
1:32.9	during the day of May 8th, was agreed about shortly before 10 o'clock p.m. on the 8th of May,
1:38.8	and went into effect a little past 11 p.m. on the 8th of May 8th was, of course, the early morning in Moscow, May 9th. And so this chain of events has left ever afterwards, a question mark, but what is the exact and proper date of the end of the Second World War in Europe, whether it's May 8th, as it was in Berlin and where the Allied armies were, or May 9th as it was in Moscow. Of course, the war itself would continue for more months.
2:03.1	As the Germans surrendered in the West, American forces in the Pacific were fighting a brutal
2:07.7	battle on the island of Okinawa, one of the bloodiest battles of the whole war, certainly I think
	...

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