BBC Sounds, music, radio podcasts.

Hello and welcome to political thinking, a conversation with rather than a newsy interrogation

of someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs.

My guest today made his name studying what he called the Revolt on the Right.

Professor Matt Goodwin has transformed himself from being an academic into being an advocate for the very ideas and people he once analysed and used to condemn.

We recorded this interview a while back in the afternoon. analyzed and used to condemn.

We recorded this interview a while back in the aftermath of the riots which scarred our towns and

cities and which one judge described as hours of racist hate-fueled mob violence.

Ordinary British people, Matt Goodwin wrote afterwards,

were reacting to a creeping sense of lawlessness

and an overwhelming sense of hopelessness.

It's a stance that has lost him old friends,

but warn him plenty of new admirers,

some of whom hope he'll take the next step

to become a leader of a new politics.

Have a listen.

Matt Goodwin, Professor Matt Goodwin, welcome to political thinking.

Thanks for having me.

You were once a conventional, if you like, academic. you're now in many ways an advocate a campaigner a politician a

a champion how do you see yourself well I wouldn't describe myself as an advocate I'd say instead perhaps that I'm giving voice to lots of people in this country who feel that they're not included or even respected in the national conversation.

Let's start with the riots. You were writing about these issues for many years before

the riots. Even the word Riot versus protests captures the controversy that you and some other people stirred up.

...