When's the last time you watched two people genuinely disagree, but actually listen to each other?

Well, what you're about to hear is a recording from the Eudomonia Summit in West Palm Beach, Florida,

where I had the dubious pleasure of moderating a panel unofficially billed as Mha versus anti-maha. On the stage with me were two people

that I know and like and respect Dr. Will Cole and Dr. Jessica Nurek, both of whom have joined

me on this podcast before. So Will runs a functional medicine telehealth clinic

in Pittsburgh. He's written several bestselling books and has become very closely associated with

the Maha movement. Jessica holds a PhD in nutrition, has spent years working in public health,

and has become one of the most prominent

and articulate critics of that same movement, to smart, thoughtful people who profoundly disagree

on some very consequential questions in public health, sitting right there on the stage together with

me in the middle. So my goal was to model what a sane, constructive, hard conversation actually

looks like while untangling the public health debate at the heart of Maha. It was spicy, deeply respectful, and ended

quite literally with a hug. I think you'll find it worthwhile. Okay, ladies and gentlemen,

thanks for coming out. This is exciting. I've been looking forward to this for some time.

First of all, I want to thank Eudamonia for the opportunity to have this kind of panel

to engage in tricky, thorny conversations respectfully.

I think that's more of what we need in our society.

And I want to thank Jessica and Will for agreeing to do this.

You guys are both either.

You're both very brave or very stupid. I'm not sure. No, I just.

So there's a kind of dual purpose to this conversation today.

The first purpose is really to be able to demonstrate a model exemplar of how to have a conversation

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