Welcome to indoctrination, a weekly conversation series about protecting yourself from systems of control.

I'm your host, Rachel Bernstein.

Hello, everyone. Today on the show, we have a returning guest, Anne Peterson.

She devoted herself for 20 years to Landmark, the training and

development company she believed was transforming lives. She even helped launch the public reemergence

of the guru behind the organization, Warner Earhart. But ultimately, Anne faced a reckoning. The organization and Earhart were

corroding the message that initially sparked her passion. After years of rationalizing away the

red flags, the harm beneath the surface became undeniable to her.

Anne now focuses on helping others navigate personal development without exploitation.

Drawing on her experiences to provide guidance on recognizing manipulation, her new book, Is This a Cult? Confronting the line between transformation and exploitation

is an inspiring tale of rebuilding integrity in the shadow of charismatic leaders, and it offers hope

to all who wonder whether their quest for growth has a dark side.

If you haven't already, make sure to check out our previous episode with Ann, which is linked in the show notes.

Learn more about Anne and her work at is this occultbook.com.

And you can also find some information about Anne's recovery group facilitated by me

in the show notes as well.

Here is Anne now.

Music It is my absolute pleasure to be able to have Anne Peterson with me today for this very special show.

It's about a particular group, but it's really about more. It's about

how you learn to think and how you learn to deflect and what goes on in the internal process

of the mind after being involved in a group like this. And it's something I've talked a little

bit about on the show where I've mentioned that sometimes in the support group that I do,

...