Pushkin.

It's hard to read the news these days without asking yourself, how did we get here?

Fiasco is a history podcast for the co-creators of Slow Burn.

In our first season, Bush v. Gore, we examined an unmistakable turning point in American

politics, the 2000 election, which resulted in a high-stakes stalemate, ended with one of the most

controversial rulings in Supreme Court history. So if you're trying to make sense at the present

moment, check out Fiasco, Bush v. Gore. Listen on theHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

From Pushkin Industries, this is Deep Background, the show where we explore the stories behind the stories in the news.

I'm Noah Feldman. Today we're going to talk about a book that has been getting a lot of attention and deservedly.

It's about the disappearance and suspected murder of Jimmy Hoffa, a man who was at the forefront

of the labor movement in America, but also had close connections with the mafia.

On July 30, 1975, Jimmy Hoffa disappeared. The commonly articulated view is that Hoffa was killed in a

mafia-related hit, and that his friend and longtime associate, indeed almost his son, Charles Chucky

O'Brien, kidnapped him and drove him to the spot where he was murdered. My colleague Jack Goldsmith disputes this version of events.

Jack is a Harvard Law Professor.

He also used to head the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice

and the George W. Bush administration.

And Chuckie O'Brien is in fact his stepfather.

Jack is the author of a new book called In Huffa's Shadow,

A Stepfather, A Disappearance in Detroit, and My Search for the Truth. I recently had the

chance to talk to him about it. Jack, I'm thrilled that you could join us. This is a great

opportunity for me to talk to you about something that's been very close to your heart, not just

...