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rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath.

And one of the things we found in looking at history of grand strategy in this group

is that it's not an accident that the United States was positioned to be a world power

at the end of World War II.

That the strategy from the founding to World War I was really one of

let's stand for democratic principles, but let's not impose them in other places.

And that's how we were able to expand our territory, keep European powers out of the Western hemisphere,

ensure freedom of navigation, etc.

And so what we're arguing here is that we're not anti-democratization and human rights,

but we have to be much more prudent about how we go about promoting those values.

And if recent history is any guide, we really are not good at imposing democracy on countries from the outside.

And it's not just that it's against American interests, it's that hundreds of thousands of people

in these countries in the Syrian Civil War, in Libya, in Iraq, in Afghanistan have suffered also.

I'm Cody Poplin, and this is the Law Fair Podcast March 26, 2016.

That was the voice of Amy Zegart, arguing that the United States should be unapologetic

in its pursuit of economic and security interests and more tempered in the pursuit of ideals.

This week on the podcast, Law Fair's Ben Wittis interviewed Zegart and Stephen Krasner,

...