The Lawfare Podcast: Adam Segal on "The Hacked World Order"
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 31 March 2016
⏱️ 45 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week, Adam Segal of the Council on Foreign Relations joined Lawfare’s Jack Goldsmith at the Hoover Book Soiree for a discussion of his new book, The Hacked World Order: How Nations Fight, Trade, Maneuver, and Manipulate in the Digital Age. Segal begins at what he calls “year Zero”—sometime between June 2012 and June 2013—explaining that the events in that year ushered in a new era of geopolitical maneuvering in cyber space, with great implications for security, privacy, and the international system. These changes, he suggests, have the potential to produce unintended and unimaginable problems for anyone with an internet connection.
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Transcript
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| 0:22.0 | rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:29.0 | I think the reason why they have been saying, |
| 0:33.0 | oh, we can do attribution better is because they are possibly getting ready for sanctions. |
| 0:37.0 | I don't think the indictments work. |
| 0:39.0 | This idea that you are scaring the next generation of hackers. |
| 0:43.0 | So there's some 17-year-old and Wuhan who's thinking, |
| 0:47.0 | one day I want to go to America so I'm not going to hack. |
| 0:50.0 | What 17-year-old is thinking that far in advance, much less a hacker. |
| 0:53.0 | I don't see that as a deterrent. |
| 0:55.0 | But I do think the threat of sanctions on Chinese companies that benefit |
| 1:01.0 | might have some deterrent value. |
| 1:03.0 | We don't know what the Chinese leadership knows about cyber. |
| 1:07.0 | We know that Xi Jinping has set up this small leadership group. |
| 1:09.0 | We know he thinks it's really important. |
| 1:11.0 | But does he truly understand how attribution works? |
| 1:15.0 | I think it's probably unlikely. |
| 1:17.0 | Somebody may have briefed Xi Jinping and said, |
... |
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