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The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Podcast Bonus Edition: Ben Buchanan on 'The Hacker and the State'

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

History, Military, International Relations, Government, Constitutional Law, News, International Law, Current Events, Politics, Rule Of Law, Law, Foreign Policy, Diplomacy, National Security, Intelligence, Terrorism

4.76.4K Ratings

🗓️ 26 February 2020

⏱️ 44 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Ben Buchanan is a professor at the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service and a scholar on cybersecurity and statecraft. He has a new book out this week: “The Hacker and the State: Cyber Attacks and the New Normal of Geopolitics." Jack Goldsmith sat down with Buchanan to talk about Ben’s new book, about the so-called name-and-shame of Justice Department indictments, and about the various reasons why states engage in offensive cyber operations.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair

0:07.2

podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair.

0:14.7

That's patreon.com slash LawFair.

0:18.2

Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair

0:25.6

no bull and the aftermath.

0:34.0

This is one of the hardest subjects to study because obviously decryption capability is

0:38.7

some of the most secret tools in the US government, certainly some of the secret tools in our

0:42.8

adversary governments.

0:44.4

That said, we do have information, again largely from Snowden, but some from other sources,

0:48.8

including computer science research, that suggests the United States has pursued a very

0:52.6

aggressive effort to try to weaken encryption or to otherwise decrypt messages that the

0:59.3

sender and receiver think are secure.

1:01.6

That takes a number of different forms.

1:03.1

It takes the form of spying on cell phone companies and telecom providers to figure out

1:08.3

what kind of encryption they're going to use and try to find weaknesses in it.

1:11.5

It takes the form of trying to introduce vulnerabilities where possible into encryption systems

1:16.8

and it takes the form of using high end supercomputers and math to try to exploit vulnerabilities

1:21.9

that are found.

1:22.9

It's a multi-pronged effort, certainly costing hundreds of millions of dollars a year that

1:27.7

I think the NSA in one single intelligence strategy calls the price of admission to cyberspace.

1:32.8

That this is essential for understanding the secrets of adversaries once they're encrypted.

1:39.4

You need decryption capabilities to figure out what's going on.

...

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