The “Just Chilling in My Padded Room” Edition
Rational Security
The Lawfare Institute
4.8 • 2K Ratings
🗓️ 22 January 2026
⏱️ 81 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week, Scott sat down with co-host emeritus Shane Harris and Lawfare colleagues Anna Bower and Loren Voss to talk through yet another big week in national security, including:
- “Minnesota N(ICE).” Amidst ongoing tensions over the Trump administration’s hyper aggressive immigration enforcement tactics in Minnesota, the Justice Department has issued subpoenas to at least five state Democratic officials—including Governor Tim Walz—investigating alleged efforts to obstruct or not cooperate with federal efforts. Some say it’s an intimidation tactic; to others, it seems to be laying the foundation for an invocation of the Insurrection Act. What should we make of these most recent developments in Minnesota?
- “Fed Up.” Last week, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell announced in a video that the Federal Reserve had received subpoenas from the Department of Justice as part of a criminal inquiry into his congressional testimony regarding cost overruns in the ongoing renovation of the Federal Reserve’s headquarters. Powell called out the probe as an effort to undermine the Fed’s independence, and both markets and members of Congress have had a negative response. And the Supreme Court may follow, as it’s set to hear oral arguments in the related case of Federal Reserve board member Lisa Cook, whom Trump had previously sought to fire “for cause” on the basis of similarly unproven criminal allegations. Why did the Trump administration take this step when it did? And how might it affect the outcome of the Cook case?
- “The Sound and the Fury.” Recent media reports have revealed that the Department of Defense has spent at least a year testing a device that may have been the source of a mysterious illness that has affected U.S. diplomats and personnel stationed around the world since 2016. This revelation has inevitably called into question past intelligence community assessments that such symptoms were unlikely to be the result of actions by a hostile adversary and resurrected controversies around how affected U.S. personnel have been treated. What should we now make of the so-called Havana Syndrome? And how might these new revelations affect U.S. foreign relations?
In object lessons, Anna is channeling her inner British spy with a recommendation of season 2 of The Night Manager. Loren is channeling some inner peace with a recommendation of the Snoo. Scott is changing the channel to the bizarre French animated comedy Grizzy & the Lemmings. And Shane is considering a style change a la Ted Danson in A Man on the Inside.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Shane, I don't know if this is the first time rational security listeners have gotten to see the inside of your sound bunker, but it's really got like a complex vibe. It's got an MC Escher sort of feeling going, a lot of cross-hatching, crossing direction. And then the stars give it a vaguely patriotic vibe, like you're trying to cater to the powers of the moment. What's going on here, Shane? You know me. I'm always pandering. And that red hat you took off right before we hit record, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I almost wore a hat. No, this is my, this is my sound booth that Joe, my husband built for me. Kind of like after the pandemic, you've heard me in this booth before, but you might not have ever seen the booth before. |
| 0:38.7 | I think that might be right. |
| 0:39.6 | It reminds me a little bit of a padded room. |
| 0:51.0 | There you go, which we need these days. It's a healthy thing down on the house. I know somebody I could put in here. Yeah, exactly. This is why Shane sounds so velvety. In the real life, Shane is a shrieking harpy, but here in this chamber, |
| 0:53.4 | he is the perfect radio voice on every time. |
| 0:54.9 | Screaming queen in person. |
| 0:55.5 | Just can, |
| 0:55.7 | yeah, |
| 0:56.2 | exactly. |
| 0:56.8 | It's amazing. |
| 0:54.9 | Do you ever go in there? but here in this chamber, he is the perfect radio voice on every time. Screaming queen in person. |
| 1:44.6 | Just can, yeah, exactly. It's amazing. Do you ever go in there to just chill? You know, I haven't, but it actually would be a great meditation room. It's like a chamber. But I do feel very relaxed the minute that I step in. What is the top like? This is what I envision. I like to think it's either like a skylight viewing to the night sky to compliment the stars or just a sad overhead light. Oh, it's really tall. Oh, wow. Wow. Joe, Joe's outdone himself. Impressive. He really is. He sure really is quite good. This is the only time you will see me get back in the closet. Was it originally a, it was a closet? Stram, it's a laundry cloud. Like there is a laundry attachment. Like right here, I could hook up to like water and gas and put a washer dryer. Well, that could be very convenient is what was here. Espresso machine, cocktail or something. There you go. I should do. Thank you, Scott. |
| 1:45.1 | Come over. |
| 1:46.0 | Get over here right now. |
| 1:49.1 | Take the laundry shoe that you can just throw your notes in when you're done and tossing. Completely. |
| 1:49.5 | It's a burn room. |
| 1:50.9 | Burn bag. |
| 1:56.9 | Hello, everyone. |
| 1:58.0 | Welcome back to Rational Security, the podcast where you invite you to join members of the Lawfare team and some of our friends and family to join us as we try to make sense of the week's biggest national security news stories. It is, as they are all these days, a very big week for national security news. And I'm thrilled to be joined by two of my colleagues and one good friend and former host emeritus of the podcast, joining us joining us to talk them over this week. First up is said post emeritus, none other than Shane Harris of the Atlantic Shane. Thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. Always a pleasure to have you. Hello. It's great to be back. I think last time we had you on, we were, we were both in the, you know, low oxygen levels, slightly euphoric, Aspen, Colorado. Now we're here, now we're here back at sea level here in Washington, D.C. It's good, a little more stable minds, a little less obscenities. That podcast got a little inappropriate, if I recall. I don't know how stable our minds are right now, but, uh, well, yeah, exactly. Well, that's why we have you in your padded room. Exactly right. Exactly right. Also, joining us, thrilled to have with us, Lawfair's Public Service Fellow, one of Law Fairs Public Service Fellow, recently returned from Family Leave and we're really appreciate her joining us, in spite of her having her having a new little guest alongside her, none other than Lauren Voss. Lauren A, congratulations. We're so excited for you. And B, thank you so much for coming back and joining us. Thanks. Thanks for having me. This is number three, so I feel like I'm an old hat now. |
| 3:10.5 | Nope. We're so excited for you. And B, thank you so much for coming back and joining us. Thanks. Thanks for having me. This is number three, so I feel like I'm an old hat now. |
| 3:10.5 | no kidding yeah you've you've got the experience down pat when you start podcasting while feeding a baby a bottle |
| 3:16.7 | which is what you're doing right now you know you really are really an expert at this thing so we'll see |
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