And I'm going to All right, Vincent, thanks for joining the Red Nation podcast.

Can you start by introducing yourself and where you're calling from?

Yeah, sure, thanks for inviting me to do that.

My name is Vincent Bevins, I'm a journalist and foreign correspondent.

I just wrote a book called The Jakarta Method,

and I'm calling in from Sao Paulo, Brazil.

You're living in a warehouse. Yeah, I'm staying at I'm I got stuck here. I wasn't supposed to be here this long. I came down in February to do one article for the New York review of books on Bolsonaro and then I was going to go to Chile to cover this referendum to renew the Constitution, but then as the pandemic kid I just kind of bunkers down in my old place in South

Poland. It is kind of like bunker-ish.

It is like a big empty hole in the middle of downtown South

Paul as this country go through some weird transformations. Yeah, and I think if I remember just reading the news,

Brazil has high rates of infection of COVID-19 and the spread,

very much like the United States.

Yeah, I think Brazil is, well Brazil has already surpassed the United States as being like the most

aggressively incompetent response.

So Bolsonaro like

so Bolsonaro like really just refuses to to like enter into dialogue

with science whatsoever so he lost two of his health ministers and these

were both health ministers that he appointed

so these were like right-wing Bolsonarista health ministers that still couldn't do

the job because he demanded that they ignore everything that they know about

science and yeah I think that the that they ignore everything that they know about science.

And yeah, I think that the total case and death toll

...