Some may want to risk their lives. I think maybe more would like to risk other people's lives.

No, that's right. You know, if you want to risk your life, I would say go to Ukraine and volunteer to fight on behalf of the Ukrainians.

And that would be a really worthwhile way to risk your life.

Welcome, one and all, to the Mona Charrin Show.

So glad you could join us today.

My guest today is Francis Fukuyama, one of America's leading intellectuals, author of many books.

He is also a senior fellow at the Olivier Nomalini, senior fellow at Stanford University.

His most recent book is liberalism and its discontents.

He is also the author of a really stimulating new piece about how populism happened, and we're going to get into that in some detail.

But before we do, Frank, first of all, thank you so much for being here. And I want to begin

with something you wrote, I think you said you wrote it in 1989. I'm talking about the end of history and the last man, because I recently reread it,

and I have long felt that this was one of the most unjustly misunderstood, maligned books ever. I cannot count the number of times people have said,

well, I guess Frank Fukuyama sure wishes he hadn't written that. So can you just outline,

I mean, I'll tee up the first one. The first thing that drives me crazy is when

people say that people who obviously didn't read the book, but just saw the head, just saw

the title, and thought that you were arguing somehow that history was actually over,

that events would no longer happen.

So that was the dumbest.

So we can start there.

But then there were other criticisms.

And I would love for you to just take a few minutes to talk about that book and the reaction to it.

Sure, Mona.

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