I was trying to make a decision whether to go on the run or stay and face this. And I put that

question to my spiritual teacher. And, you know, he advised me that I should stay and face it and that I

wouldn't really be able to continue as his student if I was living life on the run. But even if I

had to do serious prison time, I could continue as a practitioner as a student.

And, I mean, I was terrified of going to prison, but also not really thrilled about the idea

of being on the run. I actually had very little financial resources at that time, the way things

worked out. And in fact, I was working, selling cars for a living to support my family.

So it was kind of a relief, and it was really the

first time I ever took anybody's advice. Before that, if you want me to do something, just tell

me the opposite, you know. I did take that advice, and I turned myself in. As tough as that journey was,

I've really never regretted it. Welcome to the Mark Devine show.

This is your host, Mark Devine.

On the show, we discover, we dive deep and discuss what makes the world's most inspirational,

compassionate, and resilient leaders so courageous.

We talk in-depth to people from all walks of life, such as martial arts grandmasters, meditation,

monks, CEOs, military leaders, stoke philosophers, proud survivors, and great adventurers,

and many more.

In each episode, we get deep into our guest's life, their experiences, their lessons learned,

and we come up with actionable insights that we can use to

follow and lead a life filled with compassion and courage and to do good things in the world.

I'm excited today to talk to Dr. Fleet Mall, a fascinating guy. He's an ordained Zen monk

and also a Tibetan Buddhist monk. And he's developed programs around them that he teaches

...