Welcome to the Good Faith Podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Chang, and the Good Faith

Podcast is a production of redeeming babble, and it's a place where friends who follow Jesus

help each other make sense of the world. And joining me today is a good friend, long-time

friend, and regular guest on Good Faith, Andy Crouch. Andy, welcome back.

Since this is my third time in history, I guess I'm regular at this point. Oh, yeah, for sure.

In the lifespan of The Good Faith, that makes me a regular. You're a three-timer at The Good Faith Podcast.

So for those of you who don't know Andy, Andy is a writer, a speaker, and a theologian in

residence at praxis. And praxis, for those of you don't know, is a really important Christian

ministry that is an incubator that helps entrepreneurs launch redemptive ventures in business,

in nonprofits, and most recently in philanthropy. And very recently, I spoke and mentored at the

praxis program for the business entrepreneurs while my wife Jody was in the inaugural program for

philanthropy. And so the Chang family, we are all in our praxis. We're regulars. We're just waiting

for you to launch a praxis youth programmer. We'll send the Chang kids through you.

So I want to set up for why I'm especially interested in talking with Andy about the topic we

have for today. And before I get to that topic, let me do a little setup here. So if you're a long

time listener of Good Faith, you know that Good Faith used to be owned and operated by the

Dispatch, which is a secular news outlet that David French used to work for. And this was before

David left to go join the New York Times. And at that point, it didn't make sense for Good Faith

to still be owned and operated by the Dispatch. So the Dispatch was kind and generous enough to

basically give us, give redeeming Babel the podcast, which to anybody who's listening, who's

part of the Dispatch. Thank you. That was a very generous gift. And what that did has it opened

up an opportunity for rethink the business model for Good Faith because the old business model

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