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slash setup welcome to spycast the official podcast of the International Spy Museum.

I'm your host, Sasha Inber, and each week I take you into the shadows of espionage, intelligence, and covert operations across the globe.

For decades, California-based engineer Chimak quietly stole secrets on warfighting technologies.

He and his family members shared the intelligence with spies in China, giving Beijing astounding insights that they hadn't earned.

Former FBI Special Agent James Gaylord takes us back to the elaborate investigation

in 2004. Evidence gathered by his squad, call sign Sarah 4, broke a string of FBI failures

in the courtroom. Chi went to prison, but new problems arose. It's all documented in Jim's book,

Chasing Chi out in December. Jim, in the early 2000s, the FBI doesn't exactly have a stellar track

record for investigating Chinese espionage. Can you set this scene for us?

We hadn't had a really successful Chinese espionage case for almost 20 years.

Been one failure after another. Probably the biggest two that had an effect on my case later,

or the Winho Lee case and Katrina Leone case. She was an asset,

supposedly of the FBI run by an agent, J.J. Smith in Los Angeles. But in fact, there were

lovers, and she was spying on behalf of China. And he was, whether unwittingly or wittingly,

giving her information that she was providing back to her handlers in China.

That was the backdrop we had to operate out of the Chi Mack case.

...