Welcome to Spycast, the official podcast of the International Spy Museum.

I'm your host, Sasha Ingberg, and each week I take you into the shadows of espionage,

intelligence, and covert operations across the globe.

No other American has a family history quite like Christine Kuhn. Through years of doing painstaking

interviews, hunting down letters, and pouring through FBI records,

Christine learned that her German-born aunt had a fling with Nazi politician Joseph Goebbels,

and when he found out that she was half Jewish, he sent the family to Hawaii to spy.

After Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Christine's grandfather was

found guilty of providing intelligence to the Japanese. Her book, Family of Spies, is out November 25th.

Christine, this all starts with your aunt, Ruth, having an affair with Joseph Goebbels.

Did she go in with eyes wide open? What do you know about their affair?

You know, honestly, I know very little about their affair. I know that she was a teenager when the

affair started.

She was at a party and she had met Gerbils at this party that was hosted.

She'd gone with her brother Leopold.

And during the party, Gerbils noticed her and thought she was beautiful.

And they started dancing and spent the evening together.

And that's what started the affair with him.

Now, what happened was when the Nuremberg laws went into effect,

we had to kind of make some moves because Ruth was half Jewish.

And I don't think Gerbils knew that.

And so when the Nuremberg laws went into effect, eliminating

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