Well, my feeling as a critic, and this is like in film, in technology and anything,

if you state someone's ideas fairly and engage with their ideas, if you put in the effort,

if you're generous enough to understand what someone is actually trying to say or do,

and you disagree with that, you are criticizing fairly.

And a lot of these companies cannot deal with critics because as soon as you see them for what they are, they crumble. Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us. I'm your host, Paris Marks, and this week's guest is Joanne McNeil.

Joanne is the author of a new novel called Wrongway, and she's also written for a number of different publications, including Descent, New York Magazine, and The Nation.

Joanne was actually one of the first guests way back in the early days of the show in 2020, and I've been looking forward to having her back on the show.

And it's unfortunate it's taken this long, but to celebrate her new novel, her first novel,

I think it was a fantastic time to have her back, to have a conversation.

And this is just such a fun one.

Like obviously, we talk about the novel, which has this focus on self-driving cars and kind of,

you know, the human labor that exists behind that, you know, with kind of a novel spin, you know, a kind of fictional story

in there. You know, it's not a nonfiction novel or anything like that. But it gets to these kind of

key themes that we talk about a lot on the show and that are very relevant in thinking about

transportation and labor and technology and all of these other things. But then we also kind of get beyond that,

right? We're not just talking about this novel, but we're also talking about Joanne's work as a tech

critic. We're talking about how both of us really kind of got to start writing about technology

and being critics of technology. And there are just so many, like, fascinating insights in this

interview that I think that you'll really enjoy.

Like, I would highly recommend you going to grab Joanne's novel because it's great.

And I think it's always nice to, like, escape the nonfiction world, which I read so much of,

obviously for, you know, this podcast and for my newsletter and just out of personal interest as well,

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