Welcome to the Matthiaschibarker Podcast, everybody.

Well, hello, I'm glad that you're here.

I'm really excited to introduce you to a good friend of mine.

His name is William Bortz and he's a poet.

You might recognize him from a project that we did last year together called On Grief.

We wrote an e-book. It was a free e-book. You can get that on my website if you want.

Matthiaschibarker.com. You can just download that for free.

And he did the poetry for the book. So the book was just a short,

almost kind of like a long essay, really.

On grief in the process of recovering from grief, really,

like the trails of grief that can lead to further disrepair,

complex grief and maybe some reflections that were meant to help protect from that.

And William came along and really, I don't know, gave the project a lot of soul,

like brought it down to the heart, not just kind of a series of,

of kind of psychological reflections, but really something artful and deep and meaningful.

And I'm so thankful for his collaboration on that project.

It was great to talk to him here, too, because I kind of take the time with William

on this podcast to explore poetry, the utility of poetry and mental health.

We talk about grief. We talk about the process of grief.

And then also kind of creating arts that's meant to help people process pain.

We kind of take a more broad reflection on that front as well.

It's a really meaningful conversation with someone that is so deep and insightful and wise.

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