S.O. wants to help you use your car a little less by hoping on your bike a little more,

especially for those shorter trips, like the popping out for a pint of milk trip,

or the off-to-pick up the kids' trip, or even the Friday night Chippy trip.

And to make the swap easier, every day S.O. is giving away an e-bike and 10,000

nectar points that you could spend on cycling gear. Could you do a journey differently?

Search S.O. Thoughtful Driving to find out more. See terms and conditions at s-o-dot-co.uk.

Today on the Grave Talks, a conversation about one of the most famous houses in the United States,

with author, podcaster, and explorer of the unexplained, Jeff Belanger.

It's the most famous home in the United States, the White House. George Washington selected

the site for the White House in 1791, and eight years later, John and Abigail Adams moved

into the yet unfinished home. It's also known, as one of the most haunted homes in America,

where former presidents still roam the halls. I'm Carol Hughes in Fertone Brusky, and on this

episode, we'll talk about the hauntings of the White House, with Jeff Belanger,

author of Who's Hunting the White House, the president's mansion, and the ghosts who live there.

And Jeff, thank you so much for joining us today.

I'm really excited to talk about this particular topic. I love history and presidential history,

and I went to the White House once, and I'm like, this place has got to be haunted.

Sure. How old were you when you went to the White House? I was.

Were you a kid or were you? No, I was an adult.

Sister got invited to a breakfast at the White House, and George Bush came out and met everybody.

It was kind of cool. Excuse me, George, Debbie Bush and Younger.

So I don't know. I was probably in my 40s at that time. I don't remember how old I was.

...