Well, welcome to it was what it was. And before we get into our main episode today, we did want to remind you that our Patreon page is available. And our Patreon is super exciting, isn't it, Jonathan?

Oh, it couldn't be more exciting, Rob. Every Wednesday, you're getting a countdown to the World Cup. That will go on during the tournament itself. So if you join the Patreon, you can go back and we've been doing them from 1930 all the way through, so you can read the whole back catalogue. But every week we release a new one going through the World Cups and Order, obviously based on my book, because why would I not sell myself? That's what this game's all about. So World Cup Wednesdays, but that's not all, is it? We also give you stuff on Fridays.

It's certainly not all. Yeah, on Fridays we have an extra episode. Often that's a bonus episode

picking up on themes, which we've talked about in the main episode, and we do live Q&As, if my

board band holds out. And sometimes we flick through old shoot magazines. In general, it's quite a lot of fun and it's just a deeper dive into some of the themes we get into in these main edition so do please go and check out the patron page do also remember to review us because that also helps get a scene and noticed but do enjoy the rest of the main episode, but check out our patron.

Hello and welcome to It Was What It Was.

I'm Jonathan Wilson.

I'm with Rob Draper.

And today, in the week that Arsenal played

Paris Saint-Germain in the Champions League final in Budapest. We thought we'd get you in the mood

by looking at our favourite Champions League or European Cup finals, which I suspect we're going to

have to define quite closely at the end. But it's sort of partly

favoured, partly most impactful, not necessarily the best games or the most dramatic games,

just the ones that mattered to us. So we've chosen three each, haven't we, Rob? And do you want to

get started? Yeah, I am. And this was prompted a little bit. A lot of people said last year's

final might be the best, Jonathan. People have to wait out and see whether Paris-San-Germain against Inter does make our list. But I'm going to start with the granddaddy, I think, of European cut finals. I don't think that's particularly controversial. It's 1960, Real Madrid, 7, I'm Tresh Frankfurt 3.

And I'm going to bring forth two witnesses to back

up my claim that this is, I think, possibly the greatest ever European Cup final, Champions

League final. One is Sir Alex Ferguson, which I really doesn't really need any introduction.

And the other, Hugh McElvaney, who is a die of football writing,

both were at this game. And I think their thoughts are really significant. This is, of course,

is probably the peak of the Great Real Madrid side that wins five successive European

...