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Grammar Girl: For Writers and Language Lovers.

The Goth letters: why the alphabet goes off the rails after T, with Danny Bate

Grammar Girl: For Writers and Language Lovers.

Mignon Fogarty, Inc.

Education, Society & Culture

4.52.9K Ratings

🗓️ 1 January 2026

⏱️ 26 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

1147. In this bonus segment that originally ran in October, we look at the fascinating history of the "new letters" of the alphabet — V, W, X, Y, and Z. Danny Bate explains why T was the original end of the alphabet and how letters were added by the Greeks and Romans. We also look at the origin of the letter Y, which was originally a vowel, and the two historical reasons we call the final letter “zee” or “zed.”

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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

It's the last week of our season break, so I'll be talking with lots of new people soon.

0:10.7

But this bonus interview with Danny Bate that was originally for our supporters was especially interesting.

0:16.9

And only after the interview did I learn that Danny was joining us between his wedding and his honeymoon.

0:23.8

So this interview definitely deserves to be heard by everyone.

0:32.0

Grammar Girl here, I'm in Yon Fogarty, and today we're talking with Danny Bate about his new book,

0:39.3

Why Q Needs You.

0:42.2

He is a linguist, a broadcaster, a writer.

0:45.5

He has a PhD in linguistics from the University of Edinburgh.

0:54.2

He has a podcast of his own called A Language I Love Is, dot, dot, dot, where he talks about everything from, you know, the invented language Navi to Old South Arabian.

0:57.0

So it's a different language every episode.

0:59.6

He's talking with us from Prague.

1:02.1

And in this bonus segment, we're going to talk about the new letters of the alphabet.

1:08.0

Because it turns out that the letter T was the last letter for a long time. So it's fascinating. We have all these new letters. Danny, welcome to the Grammar Palluzza bonus segment. Thank you so much for having me. And hi, everyone. Hi to all your subscribers. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for being here. So, you know, I think it's just amazing that, you know, we think of the alphabet as such a

1:29.0

fixed thing, but it seems like, you know, over the ages, people were just throwing letters

1:35.0

onto the end of it as they made them up. Exactly, exactly. And there is this tweet, this post from,

1:42.9

I think a couple of years ago that just has, I just want to

1:45.6

contact the author and tell them how much they are correct in that, because basically

1:50.8

the post goes something like, T is the last great letter before the alphabet goes off the rails.

1:56.9

I think that's almost word for word. And I want to just contact the original poster of that and say, you are so accurate because

2:04.0

it was, it was the original letter of the alphabet.

2:07.5

If you have a sense that what follows T is a bit strange, like I've seen them referred to

2:13.0

as like the goth letters, for example, or the bunk letters, the ones that are a bit odd, they're

...

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