The Fund - an interview with Rob Copeland S8 | E10

Radical Candor: Communication at Work

Radical Candor

Careers, Relationships, Society & Culture, Business

4.7 • 740 Ratings

🗓️ 15 April 2026

⏱️ 44 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

While the podcast team is taking a Radical Sabbatical, Kim is interviewing authors of the books that have had a big impact on her in the past two years. Office culture is a fascinating topic. It can be the special sauce that helps bring together team members to achieve excellence. But what happens when the company culture becomes a toxic mess? What happens when a very charismatic CEO becomes obsessed with both cataloging people’s weaknesses and then broadcasting them to the entire company? What happens when that same CEO mandates “internal reporting” on fellow co-workers, techniques that appear to be drawn directly from the playbook of the Stasi (the former East German secret police force, famous for deep surveillance to control and punish their citizens)? What happens when the CEO steadfastly refuses to hear criticism about himself?Why would people join and then remain at such an organization? Kim welcomes New York Times’ business reporter and author, Rob Copland, to talk about his fascinating, deeply researched, and best-selling book, The Fund: Ray Dalio, Bridgewater Associates and The Unraveling of a Wall Street Legend. Rob’s book dives deep on Ray Dalio, the iconic founder and leader of Bridgewater Associates and the culture he created there. Under Dalio, there is no disputing that Bridgewater Associates became one of the largest and most successful hedge funds in history. At the same time, Dalio appeared to use promises of vast riches to control and intimidate his employees. Rob shares some incredible stories to illustrate these points. When someone dared to push back on any of Dalio’s techniques or vision, he famously would shut them down with, “If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?!” Rob talks about what he learned in the years of research he did for this book. This conversation presents a cautionary tale of what can happen when a charismatic leader, flush with vast wealth decides his mission is also to dictate how people should live.Background on Rob Copeland: Rob Copeland is a New York Times finance reporter covering Wall Street, banks, and corporate power. He was previously the longtime hedge-fund beat reporter at The Wall Street Journal. He is best known for investigative, narrative-driven stories and is the author of the bestselling book, "The Fund: Ray Dalio, Bridgewater Associates and the Unraveling of a Wall Street Legend". CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction to Rob Copland (01:04) The Pissing Anecdote: A Lesson in Self-Awareness (05:11) Investigating the Absurd: Culture of Petty Conflicts (09:59) The Dark Side of Radical Transparency (12:04) The Pain of Reflection: A Closer Look at Confrontation (16:24) The Cost of Self-Improvement: Why People Endure (18:48) The Allure of Success: How Ray Dalio Captivates Minds (22:43) The Challenge of Self-Awareness (23:58) The Power Dynamics of Self-Knowledge (24:46) Cult Dynamics and Personal Freedom (25:52) The Role of Powerful Figures in Toxic Environments (26:38) Radical Transparency and Its Pitfalls (31:05) The Importance of External Tethers (33:28) Navigating Career Choices and Exit Strategies (37:38) The Journey of Self-Discovery and Feedback Connect with the Radical Candor team: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:34.8	Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Radical Sabatical.
0:39.8	You've got just me, Kim Scott, here.
0:42.3	The rest of the Radical Canter team is on sabbatical,
0:44.9	and I am talking to the authors of the books that have meant the most to me
0:49.9	that I've read over the last couple of years.
0:51.6	And I'm thrilled to have with us today,
0:59.5	Rob Copeland, the author of The Fund. Welcome, Rob. Thank you for having me.
1:09.7	I loved your book so much. And I loved it for a bunch of different reasons. But why don't we just,
1:12.7	the anecdotes in your book are incredible.
1:22.5	So for folks who haven't read the fund, it's about Bridgewater, Ray Dalio's company. And it is near and dear to my heart because sometimes people confuse radical transparency and radical candor. And they
1:29.6	couldn't be more different. So Rob, why don't you open with the pissing anecdote from the book?
1:37.7	And then we'll jump in and talk about other stuff. Well, there's no, there's no better way to grab an audience.
1:42.6	That's right. First anecdote will be about piss.
1:47.0	So I guess for anyone who doesn't know, Ray Dalio founded the world's biggest hedge fund or was the world's biggest hedge fund, Bridgewater Associates.
1:55.4	And he's become sort of Uber famous as someone who preaches the ability to control your own emotions. He has these
2:03.1	things that he calls the principles that he says if you follow these, they are literally the holy grail.
2:09.0	They're a way to become wealthy in life and work. So I was a, I was and am a finance reporter,
2:16.2	and I've been reporting about Bridgewater for a long time.
	...

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