Welcome to Just Between Us, the podcast with all of the answers, some of the time.

A bit of a different thing going on this week.

You've been immature and you've lied.

And now you're trying to turn it on me and manipulate me and gaslight me.

I was trying to manipulate you.

Diana, you would be chucking their clothes out of the window.

I know, I'd be like, are you joking?

I don't know.

I guess you'd have to ask. Someone that has sex. Someone that has sex. Right. And remember,

it's just between us. Hello and welcome to the History Extra podcast from BBC History Magazine, Britain's best-selling history magazine.

I'm Ellie Cawthorne.

Think of the Wars of the Roses, and it's likely that you think of soldiers from opposing

houses thundering towards each other on the battlefield.

But there was another hidden war that also took place, a woman's war conducted through rumours and intrigue.

Cecily Neville, the wife of Richard Duke of York and the mother of Richard III, was embroiled in this

conflict, plotting behind the scenes in a bid to catapult her family to the throne. Her turbulent

life has inspired a new novel, Cecily, by Annie Garthwaite.

Our section editor, Riannon Davies, caught up with her about Cecily's story.

So thanks for joining me today, Annie, and we're going to be talking about your new book,

Cecily, which I'm very excited to discuss with you. So for my first question, who is

Cecily and why is she important? Well, the first thing to recognise about Cecily Neville is that she

had an extraordinarily long life. So she was born in 1415, she's the year of Agincourt and all of that,

...