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Imaginary Worlds

The Father of Sword and Soul

Imaginary Worlds

Eric Molinsky

Fiction, Arts, Society & Culture, Science Fiction

4.82.2K Ratings

🗓️ 20 May 2026

⏱️ 36 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Charles R. Saunders loved Tarzan as a kid, but he was also repulsed by the racism in those books since Charles was Black. So he created a counter narrative about a warrior named Imaro who lived in a fictionalized version of precolonial Africa. Charles had invented a new subgenre of sword and sorcery that he called sword and soul. His books were groundbreaking in the 1980s, but he was also way ahead of his time. I talk with Milton Davis, Sheree Renée Thomas and Troy Wiggins about a movement among Black fantasy writers today to reclaim Charles and his work. I also talk with journalist Jon Tattrie, who wrote a biography about Charles called To Leave a Warrior Behind.   This episode is sponsored by IngramSpark. Get 15% off your first order of 15 more books at IngramSpark using the code IMAGINARY15. This offer expires at the end of the year. To support the show, you can donate on Patreon where you get access to the ad-free version and our companion show Between Imaginary Worlds.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:31.8

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0:35.8

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discreetly to your home with ongoing support whenever you need it. You're not

0:55.3

alone in this. Visit medexpress.co.com.uk slash podcast to learn more. Before we begin, I want to mention that this

1:03.8

episode contains discussion of a suicide attempt, so please be advised. You're listening to Imaginary Worlds, a show about how we create

1:13.9

them and why we suspend our disbelief. I'm Eric Malinsky. John Tatri is a listener to this

1:20.5

podcast, and he emailed me with a story. He used to work at a newspaper called the Halifax Daily News.

1:28.0

He started working there in 2006.

1:30.9

And when I got there for my first shift, I was introduced to the team,

1:34.9

and the most famous face by far was Charles Saunders.

1:37.9

He was sitting right in the center of the newsroom, we called it,

1:41.6

the big desk with all the editors on it.

1:43.9

He had written a column

1:44.8

for the paper for years and wrote the editorial when I worked there. So that was when I first

...

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