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no bull and the aftermath.

When I say system, of course, it's something different from the state.

So I illusion at the time among people and I belong to those people at the time was

that, okay, communism would go away pretty much like in, I don't know, Czechoslovakia

is Germany, Poland, but we would still live in the same state.

So very few people paid very close attention to ethnic separatism, multicovid independence

and would say, oh, it's not only the Pulse.

If the Pulse go, then it would be a falling domino effect.

And of course, very few people, I repeat, understood the implications of the Russian drive

for sovereignty and declaration of sovereignty.

So people inside the Soviet Union, particularly Moscow, where the center of action always was

during those times, they continued to shake things in expectation that one more push

and the rotten communist system would fall apart, but they never, never expected that with

the system, the state itself would fall apart.

Ambrice Klem and this is the Lawfare Podcast, December 27, 2021.

This past weekend marked the 30th anniversary of the collapse of the Soviet Union.

To discuss the collapse in its implications, I sat down with Vladislav Zubuk, professor

of international history at the London School of Economics, an author of the new book,

...