The Fable Ban's Unintended Consequences + AI's New Economics — With Aaron Levie

Big Technology Podcast

Alex Kantrowitz

Entrepreneurship, Politics, Religion & Spirituality, Religion, Technology, Management, Government, Tech News, News, Social Sciences, Business News, News Commentary, Marketing, Investing, Science, Business, Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.7 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 22 June 2026

⏱️ 30 minutes

🔗️ Recording | Apple Podcasts | RSS

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Summary

Aaron Levie is the co-founder and CEO of Box. Levie joins Big Technology Podcast live from the Big Technology AI Summit to discuss the government-mandated recall of Anthropic's Fable and Mythos models and what it reveals about where AI regulation is heading. Tune in to hear Levie argue that the recall — far from a conspiracy to kneecap the frontier labs — may be the closest thing yet to the "AI pause" critics have demanded, why he thinks the government is now effectively in the model-approval business, and how that shift could hand China the long-term economic edge. We also cover whether "token maxing" was ever real, why the application layer may capture more value than anyone expected, the open-weight models closing in on the frontier, and a quick lightning round on Siri, the "permanent underclass" meme, and SpaceX. Hit play for one of the sharpest, funniest reads on the AI moment you'll find anywhere, only on Big Technology. --- Enjoying Big Technology Podcast? Please rate us five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcast app of choice. Want a discount for Big Technology on Substack + Discord? Here’s 25% off for the first year: https://www.bigtechnology.com/subscribe?coupon=0843016b Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Breaking news. The wait is over now. Waiting for summer? Over. Waiting while charging your electric car?
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0:23.3	Ionity.
0:24.2	Charge faster.
0:25.4	Enjoy more.
0:29.7	Aaron Levy is the CEO of Box.
0:32.4	He's one of the most insightful and fun voices on the future of this technology.
0:37.2	He actually was the fourth guest ever on Big Technology Podcast and the guest the only other
0:41.7	time we did a live podcast together.
0:43.9	So with that, I am thrilled to welcome Aaron Levy.
0:47.0	Please join me in welcoming him.
0:52.0	All right to see you. Good to see you.
0:55.0	Good to see you.
0:56.0	Let's dive right into it.
0:57.0	I'm going to start, you know, again, since you're not at one of the labs, let's start to talk about the biggest, most controversial moment now, which is the Anthropic Fable situation.
1:08.0	Let me put to you what I call the Jassy mystery.
1:11.9	So what we know about...
1:13.4	I'm sure he likes that name.
1:14.9	Well, he didn't show up so we can talk about it in this absence.
1:18.9	So what we know about the fable ban or the export controls on Anthropic is that Amazon found a vulnerability in the software. And Andy Jassy maybe made a call to Dario,
1:31.2	definitely made a call to the White House, and then very soon afterwards there were export
	...

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