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Rational Security

The “F*cked by Five” Edition

Rational Security

The Lawfare Institute

News, Foreignpolicy, Nationalsecurity, Politics, Government, Middleeast

4.82K Ratings

🗓️ 8 October 2025

⏱️ 87 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Managing Editor Tyler McBrien, Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman, and Public Service Fellow Loren Voss to talk through (somehow only three of) the week’s big national security news stories, including:

  • “The Dream of the ‘90s is Alive in Portland.” This past week, the Trump administration made good on its threats to pursue further domestic military deployments, this time to Portland and Chicago. Thus far, the administration has stuck to the same model it pursued in Los Angeles, using troops to bolster federal immigration enforcement efforts. But President Trump has threatened to go further if his efforts are resisted, including by invoking the Insurrection Act—something that hasn’t happened since 1992. How seriously should we take this threat? And where is it likely to lead?
  • “Strip Poker.” President Trump and his senior advisers have been engaged in serious shuttle diplomacy for the past several weeks, seeming intent on reaching some sort of peace deal in the beleaguered Gaza Strip. And while it’s required him to play every card in his hand—including by bullying both Israel and Hamas into signing on—President Trump appears to be on the verge of a breakthrough. How remarkable an accomplishment is this? And what will it mean for the trajectory of the conflict?
  • “The Maduro Doctrine.” Media reports suggest that several senior Trump administration officials are intent on removing Venezuelan dictator Nicolas Maduro from power, and that the build-up of U.S. military forces in the region—as well as the lethal targeting of alleged Venezuela-affiliated narcotics traffickers in recent weeks—is just a prelude to a bigger effort at regime change. How likely is it that the Trump administration will take such a step? And what could it mean for the region?

In object lessons, everyone’s taking a break—sort of. Dan’s “break” involves playing The British Way, a strategy game designed by his colleague Stephen Rangazas that even non–political scientists will enjoy. Tyler’s actually taking a break and heading back to high school with English Teacher on FX. Scott’s taking a break from originality by recycling not one but two object lessons: a reminder to catch Katie Pruitt at Union Stage on 10/14 (seriously, go), and—if you’re not in D.C.—Alan’s once-in-a-blue-moon good advice to watch Slow Horses on Apple TV+. And Loren is taking a break from her vices and cleaning up her act with dirty soda.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:05.5

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0:29.3

status abroad.

0:32.7

So you all look extremely professional because each of you has a very professional looking bookshelf

0:38.9

behind you in your shots.

0:40.9

You've got legal tomes.

0:43.0

I see, Lauren, behind you.

0:44.6

Dan, probably books several which you've probably written, I'm going to guess, behind you.

0:48.6

Tyler, you have my office behind you at the office because I'm recording from home today.

0:52.0

It looks very professional.

0:53.5

But then Dan picked up on something right behind you, Lauren.

0:56.1

What do we have over there?

0:57.3

Something a little more frivolous.

0:58.7

What's going on?

0:59.9

I think you might be seen shoots and ladders, which is an excellent game if you are four years

1:07.4

old.

1:09.0

I was going to say nothing frivolous about it.

1:11.0

Yeah, exactly. I think there's a lot of metaphors that are important for national security in the shoots and ladder sort of game. You know, there's never a solid state, always ups and always downs. You've got to be flexible, dynamic. I think there's a lot to learn. Right now, I'll just say in Gaza, we seem to be climbing up a ladder, but it might actually be a shoot, right? Like, it might suddenly flip on us. And I think we can make that annoying comparison with really every foreign policy crisis in the world right now. Yeah, exactly. And most of the things we're going to talk about today, in fact, it's all, it's all the way down these days, it feels like. So we'll see, we'll see exactly we end up on this particular one. If only we're living in Candyland. I know. That's the dream. Just gumdrop palaces left and right. For some reason, my son, we have a lot of games where his favorite game right now is one where you're dinosaurs escaping in apocalypse, where the island you live on is being slowly consumed by a volcano, and you

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