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Welcome to political thinking, a conversation with, rather than a newsy interrogation of someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs.

My guest this week has a rather blunt, unusual message for the Prime Minister.

There will be times, she says,

when what's right for Essex is not right for Barry, like Nessa and Smithy. There'll be a bond,

but there'll also be issues. Those are the words of Ellen Ed Morgan, who's been First Minister of Wales for less than a year, and who says, our patience is running out.

What Wales needs, she said in a recent speech, is the Red Welsh Way.

One reason she might be saying that is because she's also warning her party

that she might be out of a job and labour out of power in Wales

within a year with elections for the

Senate, the Welsh Parliament in 2026. The risk, my guest says, has never been greater. Trump won,

Brexit won. The things they say can never happen are happening. Reform could win.

Ellen Morgan, Baroness Morgan, welcome to political thinking.

I have heard Gavin and Stacey often quoted, but never to make a political point.

What was your point?

Look, I'm a massive Gavin and Stacey fan.

But my point is that actually what's right for one part of the country is not necessarily right for another part of the country. And, you know, what you saw in Gavin and Stacey is a family coming together, different parts of the country coming together. And at times there's going to be differences. And that's okay. Because you're still family, you still get on, but there are times

when you just, you just see things from a different perspective.

In this big speech you gave about the Red Walsh where you said we're a messy family, does it

feel quite messy at the moment? I mean, I think we've always been a bit of a messy family.

It's a broad church and that's okay. Let's all relax a bit.

Let's all get on with each other.

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