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Hello, welcome to political thinking.

Not so very long ago, many would have laughed at the suggestion that Nigel Farage might be our next Prime Minister.

They're not laughing now.

The possibility reflected not just in opinion polls, but also in recent election results, is now having an impact on

pretty much everything the other parties say and do. But if Farage is to get anywhere near

power, he needs to show that Reform UK is more than a one-man band. My guest on political thinking

this week, a conversation with, rather than a newsy interrogation of someone who shapes our political thinking about what shapes theirs, is Nigel Farage's deputy, Richard Tice.

The man whose money kept the party afloat in its early days and whose story could be the model for the sort of Tory screenwriters love to portray in TV dramas.

Tice was in fact a conservative for many, many years.

But now he says he wants to destroy the party.

Richard Tice, welcome to political thinking.

Thank you for having me.

Nigel Farage as Prime Minister. Do you remember a moment you thought maybe? Maybe it could just happen.

Yes, I think it's been an extraordinary journey. It really has. And just the sort of sense,

we've been really saying it since just before the general election where

something's happening out there and it was getting meaningful momentum during the general election

campaign and that momentum has just continued a pace ever since and so that becomes ever more

tenable you had a moment of course, which is you became a

member of Parliament yourself at the election. You say it was the proudest day of your life.

Did you even then think something's happening here? We knew something was happening and we just,

but it's always hard to know what until actually the votes get counted on an election

...