To understand the economy, you have to understand human nature.

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It is time for the podcast, and this is a special one,

because we're going to be talking, John, about a new notion,

which is called Employee Ownership Trusts. Now, what this is, John, about a new notion which is called employee ownership trusts.

Now, what this is, John, what this is, is it imagines a future where workers become shareholders

in their own businesses. And it imagines a future where the key to unlocking that's innovation

and productivity and resilience wasn't just technology or management,

but the very fact that workers own the gig themselves and therefore they use more of

their own noggin to get things done. That's a really, really interesting idea.

Yeah, look, it sounds brilliant, it's really interesting. It's like a really novel approach.

Yeah, and it's taking, I wouldn't say things by storm, but it's gradually becoming

on the radar screen, right?

Now, leading to change in Ireland is a company called Wolfgang Digital, which is the

first company to make the leap.

We're going to be speaking just now, John, to Alan Coleman, the CEO of Wolfgang Digital,

to explore how employee ownerships can transform companies, can empower workers, can get people

to work smarter, not longer, and can even change capitalism itself.

So let's get right into it.

Now, in the later part of the 19th century, a chap called Karl Marx talked about workers,

the proletariat, ascending the heights.

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