Hey, everyone, it's Andrew Claven with this week's interview with Yoram Hazzoni, one of the most important voices on the right. He's the

author of 20, the 2018 book, The Virtue of Nationalism, and 2022's Conservatism, A Rediscovery.

The Virtue of Nationalism was one of the most influential books in the conservative movement,

the movement to reclaim the idea of the nation state and it's now been reissued as

a second edition has been reissued.

It puts forward a philosophical underpinning to Trump's populist MAGA movement and the similar

movements that have taken place in Italy and in other countries and in Eastern Europe.

And it's made the argument that the nation state is still the greatest protector of freedom.

And now we have people within the MAGA movement arguing over what America first means

and whether we should get involved in what's going on in Israel.

And since Yoram is in Israel at this moment, he's in Jerusalem. I thought this would be a good time to talk

about the whole subject. So Yoram, thank you for coming on. I hope you all are safe over there.

Thank you, Andrew. Good to see you again. It's good to see you. So let's start with, I think we

ought to start from the beginning and just define what we're talking about, what nationalism is, because a lot of people conflate it with patriotism.

It really is a bigger thing than that.

Right. Patriotism is usually used to refer to, you know, feelings, feeling is a sentiment that people have.

I love my country.

You know, so people will say, I'm an American patriot. It basically means I love the

United States. I'm willing to fight for the United States. I share in its fate. Nationalism,

the word nationalism, you can also use it in pretty much that way. People also say, you know, I'm an American nationalist or I'm Italian or an Indian nationalist,

and it can mean that.

But nationalism also has a much broader definition.

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