4.8 • 2K Ratings
🗓️ 13 August 2025
⏱️ 77 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
This week, a rejuvenated Scott returned from vacation to sit down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Daniel Byman, and Kate Klonick to talk through some of the week’s big national security news, including:
In object lessons, Dan, in learning more about 18th-century rivalries, recommends the game Imperial Struggle. Ben, in cheerful outrage, revealed his plans for 100lbs of blue and yellow marking chalk. Scott, in humble apology, reveled in his new-found love of pizza beans. Kate, in cheerful anticipation, expects a weekend of reverie with 14 pounds of fruit and vegetables.
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| 0:00.0 | So I got all excited my first day back in the office after vacation because Ben, in your |
| 0:05.8 | little video screen the first time I've seen you today, even though we were sitting exactly |
| 0:09.4 | 10 feet away from each other. You had a nice, polite business collar on. I was like, oh, |
| 0:13.2 | maybe this is business casual August here at Lawfare with my, I'm the one person I think who |
| 0:18.4 | regularly wears dress shirts and I was getting some company. And then you zoomed out and a set of strange canine eyes arose from your sternum |
| 0:28.5 | in one of the otter dog, like it's a real covert dog shirt move, which I appreciate. Can you |
| 0:33.5 | describe this shirt and exactly how you procured it to our listeners? |
| 0:37.5 | Well, so one of the things about the algorithm is that the more interested, if you show interest in anything, it bombards you with that thing. |
| 0:47.5 | And so now the algorithm is obsessed with selling me dog shirts, which is in fact something I want to buy. And dog shirts |
| 0:55.9 | from all over the world make their way onto my feed. I used to only buy from, as Kate knows, |
| 1:04.5 | from my friends Mr. and Mrs. Clothing Monster. Now I've diversified. So these are, it's a line, they're Chinese, I think. They're a line |
| 1:14.8 | of dog shirts that are sort of, you know, painted in various abstractions. And this one is like |
| 1:22.0 | the snout of a dog peeking out from a fold in the shirt. I think the search for ever more serious dog shirts |
| 1:31.1 | that you can wear with jackets and maybe even ties, you know, dog ties, goes on and on. |
| 1:38.7 | I'm hoping that there'll be a huge surge in the dog shirt manufacturing in the United States. |
| 1:46.1 | I'm kind of upset that you had to go to China for a dog shirt and it says something about the state of our country, frankly. |
| 1:51.1 | It does. And it says, you know, also, you know, the cost of dog shirts as a result of the tariffs |
| 1:57.9 | is, you know, price sensitivity is substantial. And so, you know, |
| 2:04.2 | it's just another reason to object to the tariff policies. Honestly, this is, this does |
| 2:10.0 | qualify as a national emergency of my personal and professional life, though. So I think I might get |
| 2:13.1 | behind this one for the Aupin-based tariffs more than certain other ones I've seen recently. |
| 2:18.4 | I really see, like, Ben Wittes is beginning a, like, his own dog shirt manufacturing side |
... |
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