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I'm Ashley Muntight.

This time, why treating women like men doesn't help women at work,

and why women's groups within companies may be a waste of time.

The only reason to change it is that it doesn't usually, in any way, improve the overall gender balance of the company.

Coming up, a conversation with a long-time advocate of what she always calls balance, not women's leadership.

But first, this episode of the show is brought to you by Rights Speak Code.

If you're in tech, you know balance is still pretty elusive in that industry.

RightSpeak Code empowers women in technology. The Right Speak Code conference is taking place in June in Chicago. It's where women in tech can learn to become speakers, thought leaders and open source contributors.

You can sign up for news about the conference at right speakcode.com.

And if your company would like to sponsor the event, the organizers would be glad to hear from you.

All the information is at right speakcode.com.

A V-PREP. Aviva Wittenberg Cox is Canadian by birth, but she's spent most of her life in Europe.

She's CEO of 21st. It's a consultancy that works with companies that want to get equal numbers of men and women at their firms, particularly at the top. You may remember her from a show I did in 2014 called Stop Fixing Women, Start Fixing

Companies. I keep up with her through the pieces she writes for the Harvard Business Review.

And I wanted to kick off this conversation by talking about a piece of hers I read last year.

It was called To Hold Women Back, Keep Treating Them Like Men.

I enjoyed it, but I thought the title and the idea that men and women ought to be treated differently was bound to rile some people.

Aviva recently moved from Paris to London and we spoke on Skype.

She says whenever she speaks at a company or an event, she'll often start by asking everyone

in the room if they believe there are differences between the sexes. She says more than 90%

of people raise their hands. And then if I ask the men in the room, and I usually have mostly men in my corporate work

...