I'm John Batchel with my good colleague David Livingston of the Space Show. This is Hotel Mars,

and we're very pleased to be speaking to the author, Mark Whittington, who's written and thought about

going back to the moon, and also about the moon being a stepping stone. That's the metaphor for Mars.

Mark, what are you watching for that tells you

it's going to happen or not happen? And I mentioned cost. David and I have reason to believe

the Artemis program is extremely expensive and is a challenge to anybody using a budget in

Washington given that they fight over nickels and dimes.

So fighting over a booster that you throw away after one use is easy.

What are you watching for, Mark?

Well, the first thing I'm watching for is how the SpaceX Starship development is going.

You know, we have planned to use a lunar landing version of the Starship

to take the first astronauts back to the moon during the Artemis 3 mission.

The Starship, of course, has to prove quite a few capabilities,

including on orbit refueling.

I have to see, you know, how soon that's going to happen.

Now, I understand that Blue Origin is working on a version of their Mark I lander that would be configured to take just a couple of people

to the lunar surface and back, just in case SpaceX runs into some problems. Right now,

SpaceX is promising NASA up and down that they'll be ready for a 2027 launch.

I kind of doubt that.

I mean, you don't make it. I mean, I understand you don't make any money

betting against Elon Musk.

But he's one great pithy slogan

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