Hello, this is the Redbox Podcast. I'm Matt Jolli still bringing you food week on the

podcast and on my Times Radio show you can listen live Monday to Friday, 10 to 1 on your

DB radio on your smart speaker and on the Times Radio app. Our food fight today is Red

Sauce versus Brown Sauce turns out older people 40% of older over 65 like the Brown

Sauce, only 37% like the Red Sauce, yet amongst young people 71% prefer to mark the catch-up,

only 11% like Brown Sauce, Leavers, like the Brown Sauce, Remainers, like the Red Sauce,

all those stats on my Twitter account at Matt Jolli or X or if it's called. Coming up

with today's episode, quite a lot of booze actually. I've been to the Red Line, speak to

Charlie Whelan who used to pop up the bar a lot when he was a spin doctor for Gordon Brown.

I was in the Red Line, he was actually in the Highlands of Scotland and he tells me lots of

great stories including the night he was in the pub when he got a call from a very cross-tony

player. We'll also take a look at the history of politics and alcohol with Ben Light, the

author and journalist that's coming up in a moment. Rather, the columnist in Justicek

on the subject of booze, Rishi Sunak, who is actually T-Total, he went down to the

Great British Beer Festival this week where when it didn't go particularly well he ended

up pulling a pint but got heckled. But this is what happened.

So I'm joined by Laura Emson, who's the awards director for Camber. So Laura, quite the

day, who's been teaching the Prime Minister how to pull a pint. What sort of student was

he? Actually, I was very impressed because he listened. He did actually follow instructions

and he did pour a perfect pint. And what is the trick? The people who don't know, what

is the trick to pull a perfect pint? So the trick is to make sure you've got the glass

at the right angle and you've got the right depth of pour to get a little bit of head

...