Welcome to the podcast Think Biblically, conversations on faith and culture.

I'm your host Sean McDowell, an author, speaker, and apologetics professor here at Biola

University.

And I'm your co-host, Professor Scott Ray, Professor of Christian Ethics at Talbot School

of Theology.

Today's episode is part two of our two-part Christian ethics at Talbot School of Theology.

Today's episode is part two of our two-part series

with Dr. Oz Guinness.

Oz is a long, long term, a very insightful author, speaker, and commentator on the intersection of Christian

faith, culture, and public policy. Oz is one of the most insightful people I know on that particular intersection.

So Oz, thank you for being with us.

We look forward to our conversation.

So you've watched the immigration debate both in this country and in Europe.

How would you envision a civil debate over immigration?

Because I think for a lot of people they look at immigration and civility as being

almost mutually exclusive. Well they become that way because people don't think.

For example immigration there are various levels of discussion. The bottom level is security, and that's right.

And so notions like the wall and so on are important. You've got to have security. A person needs boundaries.

Someone who doesn't have personal boundaries is in trouble. He or she will become a

doormat to everyone else. Everyone needs boundaries. You've got to have boundaries. That's the security issue.

Then you move higher, we're talking about the ordering of society with all this differences.

Highest of all, we're talking about individual freedom and justice. Now the trouble

...