My grandfather was murdered when I was 16 years old, and everybody in my family was outraged.

It was actually very young people who murdered him. He was 86. He was living in the projects.

He didn't have very much. They killed him to steal the TV that he had in his living room.

And everybody in my family was outraged. But my grandmother, this remarkable human being who was raised by people who

were enslaved, who always felt an obligation to be merciful, asked, I am mad that we allowed children

to be in our city, to be in the world, who didn't know any better than to do something like this,

who didn't function in a way to do something like this, who didn't function

in a way that made them understand how this should never, ever happen. And while she wanted

people to be held accountable, she wanted more to create an environment where children don't

kill 86-year-old people because they want some property.

Hey, everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to rethinking, my podcast with Ted on the

science of what makes us tick. I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside

the minds of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.

Brian Stevenson is a public interest lawyer and the founder and executive director

of the Equal Justice Initiative, the human rights organization in Montgomery, Alabama.

He's argued in one multiple cases at the U.S. Supreme Court, including rulings that protect

juvenile offenders from

mandatory life imprisonment and death sentences.

What I've been trying to do throughout my career is just to establish these basic rights for all

human beings, which means then that maybe my clients won't be executed.

Maybe the children I represent won't be condemned to die in prison.

Maybe the people who are innocent and wrongly convicted will have an opportunity to have

...